What kind of school and what kind of development do we want?
What resources are necessary? What should international financial institutions do to encourage and support education policies in Africa?
The Dakar Biennial Meeting served as the backdrop for numerous
press conferences, round tables and other exchanges with the
press. Pierre Kipré, Côte d’Ivoire’s Minister of
Education, World Bank Vice President Jean-Louis Sarbib, and
Aïcha Bah Diallo, Director of UNESCO’s Basic Education
Division and Guinea’s former Education Minister, were invited
by the journalists of the Africa No. 1 Press Club to appear
on their program “Une heure pour convaincre”. The broadcast,
hosted by Abdou Laye Thiam, explored their views on African
education, its future and the role of international financial
institutions in the development of education in Africa. The
following are excerpts of the discussion that took place in
Dakar and was aired on Africa No. 1.
Africa No. 1: Mr. Kipré, what is the state of the
education system in Côte d’Ivoire?
Mr. Pierre Kipré: Côte d’Ivoire’s schools
are in the same state as the schools in all of the other African
countries—we’re in the midst of a major overhaul, as far as our
vision of a more effective education system and the development
of our country as we confront a rapid increase in society’s educational
needs. To meet these needs, as my good friend Adama Samassékou
of Mali likes to say, we need to restore the foundations of our
education system.
Africa No. 1: Mr. Sarbib, it’s tempting to say that you’re
constantly ministering to the sick.
Mr. Jean-Louis Sarbib: Africa isn’t sick. For Africa to
be a winner, its children need to be educated and its schools
need to work. To achieve that, as the Minister says, we need to
give the schools a major overhaul. At this conference for education
ministers, I’m delighted to see that education really is a central
concern for African governments.
Africa No. 1: Ms. Bah Diallo, how do you see the future
of education in Africa?
Ms. A. Bah Diallo: I’m very optimistic. Africa’s education
ministers are working hand in hand with each other to coordinate
aid, each in his or her own country. They are planning to increase
public awareness, so that education becomes everyone’s business,
and partnerships can be created from the lowest levels to the
highest—partnerships with villages, with parents and with NGOs.
They are planning to tap all available human and financial resources
at the national level before they appeal to the international
funding institutions.
We’re listening to the African ministers. It’s up to them to
tell us what they need, so that we can work with all of the other
funding institutions to meet their needs. Africa’s Decade of Education
is already well under way, and it is coinciding with the United
Nations Special Initiative for Africa.
I wouldn’t say, “Everybody is ministering to Africa.” Instead
I would say, “Everybody is listening to Africa.” And Africa is
giving us its point of view.
Africa No. 1: Has the World Bank changed its attitude towards
Africa?
J-L. Sarbib: The World Bank has been involved in education
in Africa for about fifteen years now. The World Bank’s current
investments in African education total almost 800 billion CFA
francs, and we expect to invest about the same amount over the
next three years. We’re aware today that no one can know a country
better than the people who live in it. We are listening to Africa.
Our President Mr. Wolfensohn met with ADEA’s Bureau of Ministers
in February. Africa is changing, and so is the Bank. The World
Bank recognizes the need for the ministers to decide what they
want and to decide which roles they want to assign to the various
entities outside Africa. The World Bank is willing for the governments
to act as coordinators. That is the key difference between current
and previous practice.
Africa No. 1: Mr. Kipré, do you think that the real
problem in African education is a resource problem?
P. Kipré: The African education problem didn’t
start out as a resource problem. The root of the problem is that
African societies need to cultivate a sense of ownership of the
education system. The African public doesn’t see education as
a significant issue. Society has to play an active role in its
own transformation through knowledge and what schools have to
offer. And we need to have our own vision of development in Africa.
Many people see Africa’s development as a race to catch up with
other societies. I don’t think that is the best way to look at
development. Development has to take place as a function of our
own vision of the world and our own concept of a better life.
Development affects the entire society, not just an elite. Society
itself should be in a position to guide its own development with
the resources available to it.
But if, for example, students demand that the state place the
bulk of education resources at their disposal, how will the state
find the means to cultivate the abilities of the larger society—the
very people who haven’t had the chance to be students? If teachers
demand salaries that are three or four times higher than what
civil servants earn, where will the state get the resources to
build health clinics, develop infrastructure and create the conditions
that will give everyone a better standard of living?
The development of a society has to be viewed as a whole, and
society needs to rethink its approach to this issue. A new approach
would allow us to refocus the education debate on the overall
social needs of the community. That will require reaching a social
consensus by means of a dialogue that is clear and relevant and
doesn’t dodge the tough questions.
Africa No. 1: The World Bank is proposing a new way of
working with African countries. Mr. Kipré, are you satisfied
with the preliminary instruments?
P. Kipré: In Côte d’Ivoire, the World Bank
is contributing analytical expertise on a number of projects,
and has drawn us into a dialogue that will allow us to arrive
at our own concept of development. What we deplored in the past
was having the World Bank experts impose their prefabricated solutions
on us. What the Bank’s experts do today is to review the analysis
that my coworkers and I have done. The rich dialogue that results
is very helpful to us.
Africa No. 1: Ms. Bah Diallo how does UNESCO view the aid
that the agencies have contributed to develop education in Africa?
A. Bah Diallo: The aid needs to be channeled and put to
work, and African countries need to coordinate it to make it more
efficient. It is up to the state to provide basic education for
every child. In the area of higher education, by contrast, the
private sector has a role to play. And it is very much in the
private sector’s interest to finance higher education.
Africa No. 1: Mr. Sarbib, in light of these comments by
Mr. Kipré and Ms. Bah Diallo, how do you view the aid that
the World Bank needs to provide to African countries?
J-L. Sarbib: I am very happy to see that the ministers
are experiencing tangible results from the efforts the Bank has
been making for a number of years now. In addition to financial
resources, the World Bank is making every effort to share its
worldwide experience. We are attempting to distill the knowledge
we have gained around the world so that it can be used by national
experts. The World Bank should go beyond its role as a source
of financial resources and become a source of knowledge, so that
mistakes made in the past can be analyzed and inventoried, and
we can avoid making them again elsewhere. This calling goes hand
in hand with our financial role. When we avoid making mistakes,
resources are put to better use, and there is less waste.
That being said, both Mr. Kipré and Ms. Bah mentioned
issues of fairness. Resources need to be used efficiently and
fairly. University students often hold countries hostage because
they can go on strike and take to the streets. When elementary
school children are deprived of an education because resources
go to university scholarships, they don’t take to the streets.
They keep helping their parents carry water from the well.
P. Kipré: When our president decided to release
200 million [CFA francs] to the university students last year,
it was a political choice. This is Africa. Until recently, all
of the coups d’état in Africa started with the students.
Do you think that you would still enjoy the political confidence
of fathers and mothers if you had been shooting at their children?
A. Bah Diallo: Every one of the African countries should
hold a national debate on the strike phenomenon. As Mr. Sarbib
pointed out, university students and teachers are taking the governments
hostage, and here I speak as a former government official. The
entire society should be concerned by the country’s financial
situation. University students should be more conscious of national
resource issues. These days, even union representatives are invited
to participate in talks with the Bank.
When funding agencies lend money, there are conditions attached,
but these are negotiable.
Africa No. 1: Mr. Sarbib, the World Bank imposes its conditions
before helping countries in need. How do you respond to that?
J-L. Sarbib: We’ve just heard two current or former ministers
attest to the change in the World Bank, which now negotiates with
countries to find solutions they believe they can implement. The
World Bank is an institution that takes part of the savings of
the developed world and redistributes it to countries whose domestic
savings don’t provide them with adequate resources. These resources
are redistributed in the form of contributions that, for education
systems, are essentially grants. But the Bank can’t use these
resources as it sees fit. The contributors want to know how their
money is being used. That’s why we have conditions. Contributors
give us resources to support basic education, for example, or
to encourage the education of girls. In order to get refinancing
every year, we have to have met all of the stated conditions.
These conditions flow out of the work done by research institutions
such as UNESCO or other partners of the World Bank which advise
us on where we should invest. For example, numerous studies have
shown that the best investment a country can make is to send girls
to school.
We have to fulfill the terms in order to ensure that the credits
continue to be approved and that cooperation continues. All of
this makes for a complicated system, and the enthusiasm of the
sixties has given way to the cynicism of the eighties and nineties.
That is the price we are all paying for bad management in previous
years.
Africa No. 1: Ms. Bah Diallo, what is your reaction to
the “cynicism” Mr. Sarbib has just mentioned?
A. Bah Diallo: UNESCO has fewer resources today. We use
what little resources we have sparingly and target them carefully.
Today, the priority is Africa. Within Africa, the priorities are
girls and women, basic education, the most densely populated countries,
the small islands. So we use what little resources we have in
a very targeted way. And we expect to see results. We are working
with the other institutions. Education doesn’t cost much if everyone
gets involved—the countries, the international institutions, the
entire population. Education is everyone’s business.
Africa No. 1: Ever since the Jomtien Conference in 1990,
countries have made universal basic education their priority.
Since that time, secondary and higher education have been neglected.
Has the Jomtien Conference had negative effects on the education
sector?
P. Kipré: The education system needs to be considered
as a whole. However, priorities must be set. It seems fairly unlikely
that a study on Incas would have any relevance for our countries.
It’s up to society to identify its priorities. How do we plan
to use not just our own resources, but the additional resources
contributed by the international funding institutions? It’s up
to society to make the decision.
I’d like to go back to what Mr. Sarbib called a certain “cynicism.”
If I remember correctly, during the sixties the Club of Rome recommended
that developed countries contribute 1% of their GNP to development
aid. The aid never went any higher than 0.8%. It goes without
saying that today, in a period of worldwide recession, the attitude
towards development assistance tends to be, “We’ve all got
problems. Underdeveloped countries, you’ll have to develop on
your own.” Africans should be aware of this, so that they
can look within themselves for the resources they need, and above
all for the energy to get the job done.
A. Bah Diallo: The foundation of development is basic
education, and a consistent level of basic education in rural
areas. Who supports development in a country? More than anyone
else, it’s the women. Eighty percent of agricultural work is done
by women in rural areas. Production would improve if only they
had a minimum of basic education. However, every country needs
to have a comprehensive education policy. In Guinea, when we developed
basic education, we also established a policy for technical education,
vocational training and higher education.
J-L. Sarbib: Guinea is a good example of the spirit of
Jomtien. “Making basic education a priority” doesn’t mean it is
the only priority. The state has available resources that need
to go to women in rural areas first and foremost, because they
are the ones who move the country forward. The rest needs to be
used efficiently, particularly in combination with outside assistance,
for vocational training and higher education.
I would like to cite the example of the Southeast Asian countries,
where resources were used to serve very clear priorities. At the
time Southeast Asia began its climb, it had the same economic
indicators that Africa has today. The only exception was the literacy
rate, which was twice the rate Africa has today. That means we
need to invest in education, and particularly in basic education,
because that’s where it all starts.
But investing in basic education as a priority doesn’t mean investing
in basic education exclusively. It’s hard to convince manufacturers
to invest in educating the rural world. On the other hand, they
will be more interested in financing a vocational training center.
That is part of a national strategy.
Manufacturers all want a peaceful country with a well-trained,
healthy labor force, where they can find good schools for their
children.
Africa No. 1: The trend has been away from recruiting in
African countries. Very often we use temporary employees in our
schools. These temporary employees are trained for only three
or four months—a very brief period compared with the training
teachers received in the past. Are we giving our children a bargain-basement
education?
P. Kipré: No. A young recruit with a first level
diploma in education who completes three months of accelerated
educational training is not necessarily any less effective than
a young graduate with a more advanced degree. An assistant teacher
who continues to take education courses over the course of several
years will be motivated and will get the most out of his or her
experience in the classroom. It’s not a bargain-basement education
if the teacher is in a continuing education program. By contrast,
if you recruit young graduates with a more advanced degree, you
will have to offer them a higher salary. Considering the current
state of our finances, we have to put all of our human resources
to the best possible use, given what we have in our wallet.
Africa No. 1: The World Bank has been accused of limiting
recruitment quotas in various countries.
J-L. Sarbib: Just as a family can’t spend more than it
earns, in the same way a country can’t spend more than its resources
allow. Payrolls are inflated in many countries. If you have teachers
but no desks or chalk in the schools, it doesn’t do any good to
have teachers. The World Bank is trying to help governments do
a better job of targeting their public spending. Ministers are
faced with handling extraordinarily complex situations. If you
say, “The World Bank is making us do it,” you are hiding
behind the World Bank, and you can’t have a genuine, mature dialogue
with your people.
Africa No. 1: Minister Kipré, are you hiding behind
the World Bank?
P. Kipré: We’re not hiding behind the World Bank.
We’re hiding behind our economic and financial problems. This
year’s budget for the Ministry of National Education in Côte
d’Ivoire is 197 billion CFA francs. Of that 197 billion, 83% is
earmarked for salaries. Now, I don’t have enough chalk in the
classrooms. That, in very concrete terms, is the problem we’re
facing.
Africa No. 1: Do you have faith in the future of education
on the African continent?
J-L. Sarbib: Absolutely. I think that things in Africa
are working. I think Africa will work faster and faster. But for
Africa to work, we have to make education our priority.
A. Bah Diallo: There are even more reasons for education
to work, now that it is being run by the African ministers of
education. African governments have to take responsibility for
themselves and tap into the human and financial resources available
at home before they hold out their hands to international institutions.
I believe in Africa.
P. Kipré: I have faith in our ability to have effective
education systems. But there are two conditions. First, everyone
with a stake in education has to realize that when the schools
are working, everyone benefits. Second, we have to make a whole-hearted
commitment to the work ethic. We should take our farmers as our
example, so that what we sow yields a good harvest.
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